Is This The End Of The Macintosh For C4D Artists?

November 9, 2016 - By 

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Show Notes
Surface Studio Video
Steve Jobs Marketing People
Mac Book Pro
Marco Arment Article
Casey Hupke Podcast

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  • I feel your pain Nick. I’d like there to be an updated Mac Pro that could take NVIDIA cards so I could run Cuda apps. And like you I’ve been on macOS for almost a decade that going back to windows would just terrify me. Every new macOS update makes it that much more difficult to leave. Now being able to use Siri to add reminders, search my notes, make calls, find files in the finder, it’s just to good and easy, allowing me to focus on creating in Cinema.

    So stay macOS. Find somebody that can build you a Hackintosh. I paid my friend a $1000 to build be a Hackintosh over 3 years ago. I told him I wanted the best graphics cards (at that time that was installing 3 GTX 980’s), 64GBs of ram, an SSD RAID for my OS to run on and another for my media. He found all the parts, put the machine together and installed macOS on it for me. Building this machine including his rate was still cheaper then buying the trash can and allowed me to keep working on macOS but use Octane in cinema when it first became commercially available several years ago.

    I’ll stay Hackintosh, 5K iMac, MacBook Pro, iPhone and Apple Watch for now until Apple unveils a new Mac Pro. Any when they do, and they will, it won’t matter what graphics card they have in it because by that time Maxon C4D will have an OpenCL based renderer, or you could use Cycles 4D on in in 6 days when it comes out.

    Stay macOS. Stay happy. My 2 cents.

  • Feel you pain Nick. I really want to jump on the Octane bandwagon.

    I’m in the market for a new machine, but there’s nothing from Apple that does what I need.

    Hackintosh sounds like a nice idea, though I’ve heard it can be an arse to get the right drivers / os updates can break it.

    It looks like PC is the only option and it fills me with such sadness it’s gotten to this. 2016 has been a weird year!

    I’m with Chad on how I’ll treat the new machine as solely a work horse and nothing more. No more imessage, no more syncing of my personal stuff etc. Just use it for work and go back to Mac for my daily personal stuff.

    If anyone has any recomendations of places to get a good idea of parts to buy or any plugins that make the Win10 a little more MacOs that would be great!

  • Congratulations on your Microsoft endorsement, if this is what it is hahah
    If not, maybe at least they’re listening…

    Boy, this is gonna be long, I’m already apologizing.
    First, I’m glad you guys approached this subject, I myself don’t understand where Apple is trying to take the pro sector of their business. It would not surprise me at all to see developers drop macOS versions of their software if the community is already past the highest point of the graph curve, as Chris puts it, it happened before. Bashing Apple on the touch bar doesn’t help at all though, I’d rather hear opinions about the ancient hardware they put in their “brand new” macs. Touch bar is Apple’s vision of streamlining all that bundled software that comes with macOS that Nick himself is saying he’s using (text mess, facetime and a lot of stuff some of us never open).

    While Chad’s opinions are a bit belligerent to the point that the 90’s come back to mind, I have to give it to him on few points, especially that an OS is nothing but a starting point. Yes, Windows gets “all” the viruses, but that’s the market share; yes, it’s got that awful registry but macs got the plists, yes it still crashes sometimes but that’s because it’s trying to accommodate for every little app out there right from the box. I’ve been using Windows since 3.1 and boy, you should’ve seen those BSOD back in the time… And by the way, WinXP and Win7 are the best OSes Microsoft ever did.
    There are a lot of great great things about a mac, but there are great things about Win too; just press Alt and the first letter of a menu bar item and you’ll ask yourself why do you have to memorize all those shortcuts on mac if you wanna be proficient.

    So the line is really blurred these days, “it just works” pretty much applies to Win too, maybe not to the same extent, but people should stop installing 50,000 apps on a Win machine, that’s where all the problems start, cause every one of them wants to be TSR’esque DOS style, know you better and send some stuff online about you – the product.
    Talking about macs, how many of you felt you’re jumping in the void when upgrading the OS? How many reviews did you read about bugs in early releases, apps not working anymore, etc. before hitting that button? I know still happens to me every time. That’s why in a truly marketing fashion Apple stopped showing OSes reviews. Just “plug and pray”

    Therefore, the solution is a hybrid, Chris’ way, especially for developers. I thought you guys always did that anyway, both systems. And when you hit the studios you’ll need Linux too, fingers crossed.

    So Nick will always need his mac fix… just like me and a lot of us out there. So what, till Apple finds a new Steve pull out your old Macbook in your coffee break while that highly configurable, “put inside whatever (brand new) hardware you want not what you’re told” frankenstein is ripping thru those great shiny spheres you can’t wait to share with us.

    There is no “best” anymore. Best is what gets the job done.

    • Great post SVR! I particularly agree with your statement “There is no “best” anymore. Best is what gets the job done.” Very, very true. Thanks for the comment!

  • I have that trash can 🙂 And as a work station for coding (which is a big part of my work) and everyday stuff its amazing, even if totally overpriced but Apple care makes up for that as it is the best customer service, something I doubt you will get with PC manufacturers. I also agree with everything you said about pcs not being as friendly as macs and you do feel like downloading an exe file is like a downloading a virus!!!!

    However I did buy a top spec pc purely for Cinema 4D because of render engines like Octane. I don’t use it for anything else at all apart from it being a super powerful 3D machine. All my other work, including After Effects, Photoshop, etc I go back to my mac. One advantage I have found of doing it this way is when I set off a render thats going to take a while I can continue working on my Mac instead of waiting.

    I’d say get a pc just for 3D. The Mac OS is ultimately a better and simpler operating system though so still use that for your everyday 🙂

  • Nick i really feel your pain man.

  • Would love love LOVE to hear what you guys make of the Adobe #Stylit sneak peak they did at Adobe MAX the other day. That looked insanely cool for 3D animation and design!!! Search for it on youtube (I’m guessing we aren’t allowed to post links here)

    Back onto this podcast though… I use an iMac at work and a PC at home for my personal projects. The conversation you had here is one I’ve had a lot with co-workers. They’re mostly apple fanatics that have yet to see that Windows has come a long way since XP. I can’t see my office switching to PC anytime soon though, it would be too much of an upheaval. And whilst I would be able deal with and fix problems, I feel like the first hiccup any PC we got had would instantly tarnish the name of all PC’s for another decade by the apple people I work with 😛

  • This is such a relevant topic for animators, video editors, and the like.

    I feel like the professional design community kept Apple alive in the early 2000s and now they’ve totally turned their backs on us. It really bums me out. I am one of those who has freshly jumped ship… In the last month. I was really tired of being given no options in terms of hardware. The one (trashcan) option is, to put it flatly, just okay in terms of specs, and insultingly expensive in terms of price… it’s not even worth considering, for me.

    I had the chance to work on a trashcan during a freelance gig, and it was fully beefed in every category…. The most expensive one you can buy. I just built a PC for less than a quarter the price, and compared the benchmarks of each. The PC destroyed the trashcan in both cpu and gpu performance…. badly.

    I really do miss the Apple OS, but their blatant disregard for customers like me is annoying and frustrating. And sorry Apple, but I share this opinion frequently with anyone who will listen.

  • I’m in kinda the same boat as Nick, I have been using a Mac for more than 15 years and while I love my Mac, it may be time for a change. I use a Windows 10 machine at work and it does what I need it to do with Adobe CC and C4D, but the longer I use the clunky Windows OS the more I like the elegance of my Mac and its OS. In fact, I had to pry the stupid Windows key off the keyboard because it’s right where the Option key should be and I kept hitting it by mistake and having the Windows Start Menu pop up about 50 times a day.
    My personal computer is a 2008 Mac Pro with Dual 3.0 GHz Quad Core processors and recently discovered that the Mac OS Sierra update will no longer support my machine. I considered upgrading to a 2010 or newer Mac Pro but found out that the hardware is not nearly as capable as my present 8 core machine unless I could afford a 12 core Mac Pro. The processor speeds on the newer Mac Pros are only 2.8 GHz or lower, most of the machines only have 4 core single processors, the eight core option doesn’t exist any more; 6 core is the most you can get with the exception of the 12 core which is really out of my budget range. So I’m sticking with my current Mac Pro until I can get around to building a Hackintosh with the fastest processor(s) I can get and a couple of Nvidia graphic cards so I can use the GPU rendering.?

  • Lenovo P50

    Killer specs, 4K screen and xRite Color calibration built into the system.

  • First podcast I’ve listened to all the way, very entertaining. I’m about to jump off this Mac ship as soon as I run my personal old 2012 laptop into the ground. I’m right at home on my work PC running Windows 10, though. I probably would have jumped on this new laptop if it had a proper Nvidia card. Full Mac to PC switch is imminent. Ramble over. 🙂

  • As you seem to be so exited about the ms surface studio vs. an imac,
    I don’t get it. The MS device is the same shit in new boots, you get laptop hardware, non replaceable interns, glossy display, and all of this running windows 10.
    I don’t see the need for changing from apple to this device when you’re hoping for a more powerful computer.
    I’ve switched to a i7 desktop on win8 myself, just as apple introduced the thrash can. And I hate it. I hate everything about working with windows, its limited drag’n drop, searching for preferences at multiple places, ugly interface and so on.
    I’ll give apple one more chance, if they bring up-to-date desktop hardware in 2017 (they are dependent on intel, that’s why nothing new this fall), i will change back, windows really sucks.
    And for C4d, there’s hope for R19 that Radeon pro Render will bring GPU rendering to mac opencl as well.

  • Chad and Chris: you both seem to skip over the Retina/hidpi issue with Windows. Do you have no problems at all? I’ve recently made the switch (Surface Book and Mac Pro 5,1 Bootcamping into Win 10 with a 4k screen) and I find the way Windows 10 deals with hidpi screens to be really inconsistent. My biggest problem is with Cinema 4D. If I leave Windows to scale the application then it’s a blurry mess of interpolated icons and jaggy viewports. If I disable display scaling then the viewports look great, as they’re running at native resolution, but all the C4D interface elements are almost unbearably small even with icons set to their largest size. Mac OS does not have this problem at all. Any ideas?

    Also there are some really basic OS issues that make it a tough switchover (which makes it hard for me to fully agree with Chad’s assertion that we should simply use Windows as a launcher for our apps). Three things spring to mind straight away: font rendering in Windows is terrible compared to MacOS; right-clicking to open contextual menus works ‘on-release’ rather than ‘on-click’ (I find this especially jarring when using my Wacom pen); drag-and-drop behaviour in Windows is so infuriating – for example, when I’m in an Explorer window I can’t select a bunch of files and drag them to the Photoshop icon and expect them to open.

    Despite these gripes, I’m persevering as it’s obvious Apple has long-deserted professional creatives. At least Microsoft is trying to innovate and if you want a powerful machine then there’s simply no choice but to run Windows.

  • Chad….Who is this company you used to build your system?

  • I’d be right there – switching to Windows 10 and even a Surface Studio – except for 2 persistent and very old gripes about Windows: ugly typography and crummy tracking (mouse, trackpad or touch). The former is much less of a problem now with HiDPI displays, but the latter is a complete killer.

    Microsoft show no signs of caring about it either; you can see lag and jerkiness right there in the Surface Studio video (along with the drooping dial thing as Chris pointed out). Even Precision trackpad doesn’t cut it and they had 10 years to get that right, so my ongoing concern would be that they’re not focussed on the details that really make the experience, for me.

  • I recently switched over to PC for personal work at home. With a LOT of help from friends I did a lot of research, selected the parts I wanted and built one myself. I should say that I’ve never built a computer before and I don’t have a technical hardware background so everything was totally new and I was able to pull it off. It wasn’t nearly as scary as I thought it would be.

    The tipping point for me was realizing that I was being held back from creating the things I wanted to create because I was on a Mac. Once that reality sunk in, it was much easier for me to let go of my love of working on a Mac and switch over to PC.

    I can say I’m absolutely glad that I switched and now that I’m on the PC side of things I couldn’t see myself going back to a Mac for serious 3D work. It just doesn’t make sense anymore.

    At the end of the day, a computer is a tool and my toolbox was not cutting it so I had to find one that would. Yeah, I still prefer OS to Windows, but when I’m inside C4D, Houdini, AE, etc. I feel no difference in the workflow.

    It’s a scary step at first, but well worth it in my opinion.

  • Other’s have said it, but there’s really no reason to worry about switching. Echo systems are great, but they are more of a trap than a tool. They can lock you into an inferior product because they’ve convinced you that you’ll be “lost” without it.

    In the last year and a half I’ve switched from iPhone to Android. Which freed me from the Apple echo system. After that it was really easy to switch to PC after my MacBook Pro was dying.

    This is not to say everything is better. I’m just saying I don’t have that illusion hanging over me that I have to buy this laptop or that phone so all my stuff will “just work” (they must have said that 100+ times at the Apple keynote.)

    It’s not that big of a deal anymore. And for me, I’d much rather have faster render times then being able to send stickers on my text messages. That might be too mean. I really do like Apple. But I feel price and performance should win out, not echo systems and brand loyalties.

    Great podcast fellas. Keep up the good work.

    • Not to be rude but just to let you know so that you don’t keep misspelling the term moving forward: it is “ecosystem” not “Echo system”.

  • My heart sank when they did not announce a new Mac Pro—yet they announced a laptop (which a journalist asked “the new Mac Pro?”) with a touch bar. I’ve been a Mac user since my Powerbook G4 Aluminum and have used nothing but Macs since then.

    I’m currently on a 5K iMac both at work and at home and while they’re fairly stable, quick machines with the most gorgeous displays on the market today (undebatable, the 5K iMac screen is flat out amazing)—I find myself wanting MORE every single time I fire up Cinema 4D and even After Effects.

    If I were doing strictly Photoshop work, great! The iMac, would be a stellar machine!

    I can safely say that when it is time to retire the iMac, I will be switching to a PC at home without thinking twice. At work, its another story.

  • Good podcast guys.

    I’ve been a Mac user for many years, since the Mac G4!
    I waited for the new pros to come out a few years back and felt very disappointed. Apple abandoned the pro user IMO & it hurt.
    So I made the decision to build my own PC. Spent a few months researching parts n stuff & started to feel the excitement of having a machine that I built so if any hardware goes wrong, I can locate it and remove / replace. I am NOT a technical person, can’t fix anything on my car, bike, etc… but a little patience and geeky research & you will be good to go.
    So…..It’s been two years & I’ve never looked back. I use my PC for 3D work ( C4D, Zbrush, Adobe, etc ) & still have my 2011 17″ Macbook pro off to the side for internet, personal & music production. This setup works great from me & switching between Windows & Mac is painless.
    I agree with Chris that the first few weeks can be weird. I remember missing the Mac key that is held down for right click, cmd or ctrl, can’t remember now but I really missed it as I used this all the time & you can’t have this as an option on the PC version of C4D. Had to get my head around finding a few options in Win7 & also how to backup like timemachine. We have Google so five mins here & there and all good.
    I love, love, love my PC build now. Having a modular machine that I can upgrade piece by piece is great. I fly around on the machine as I did on my Mac. I bought Octane recently, popped out my old GPU & threw in two GTX980i’s and good to go. I also built my 12 core PC for less than the price of the entry Mac Pro & didn’t use cheap parts either.
    My advice to Nick,
    Go for it.

  • NICK — can’t you put a nvidea graphics card into your 12 core MacPro tower to use with Octane?

    I’d love to stick with MacOS, and I wonder if a 12-core 2012 MacPro with new graphics cards would be a good setup for C4D+octane. Maybe its just crazy thoughts.

  • Hi there!

    Since we are talking about Macs. I have the latest 5k iMac (M395x) and I’m having lag issues when switching views. Is there anyone having the same problem?

  • Damn, the new iMac Pro will be upgradable to 18cores, 128GB RAM, and 16GB Video RAM. It will be fucking expensive to do so, but here’s the thing: The Mac is back. Finally.

    And you really wanna tell me Microsoft is creative, because they come up with an iMac replica after all those years? Hahaha, what a good laugh!

  • Not only is the mac back, but its AMD so it will be perfect for R19:


  • Could you guys do an update to this discussion post iMac Pro? Do you feel this changes anything? Ive been feeling this way for a long time and switched my workhorse to PC last year.. then they dropped the iMac Pro. Thoughts??

    • I think nearly everyone has moved on (with the exception of maybe Nick). 🙂

      Though I am curious to see what this “modular Mac” will be in 2018, a PC is the smart bet right now.

  • Hi, Nice to hear this podcast a few months later… I’m still exactly in the same position and feeling as Nick was (or ? still is ?). Even today… Mac and specially OSX is not only “a launching system” to me, even if your are not a super geek, I’ve made the (great) transition from MacOS6 to OSX and I still have not the feeling to go for windows for this reason, But I’m struggling with my antique “Mac Pro Early 2008” (I’m not living from C4D projects though). I just hope this new iMac Pro coming end of 2017 will be one solution before a better solution, I don’t think I can wait any longer anyway… Thanks for all your great tools and tuts for C4D ! (PS: I don’t watch Apple Events any more too…)

  • It’s funny how outdated this podcast feels now. All the initial ranting and talk about ‘abandoded(?)” professuonals just turned out to be venting. Pro’s have adopted new MBP’s quite well.

    C4D runs really nice on latest MBP. Ssd is really fast and editing 4k stuff is a joy.

    And the touchbar. It’s really good on Logic Pro. And i mean really good. If AE/C4D gets fully supported they might be good.

    I bet that 2018 MBP skips the touchpad and makes the whole lower part of the laptop into a big touchbar. That would make sense with a lot of apps. Getting a full mixer with audio apps and all color wheels in grading apps is next level s*it.

  • Ezequiel Pereyra Lucena September 18, 2017 at 8:38 pm

    im up for a pc using arnold, should i get intel 7700k or ryzen 7 1700x?

    one has faster processors but the other has more processors

    video card will be an nvidia 1070

    i dont know how to use it but i will be getting into arnold soon.

    • More cores is preferred for Arnold, but higher clock count is preferred by C4D. Try to find a balance that your budget allows. I recommend using AVA Direct. I get all my PC’s from there. I also am thinking about a Ryzen machine, they are such a good deal right now.

  • The power of a GPU-stuffed PC is attractive. Allthough, all the benefits of MacOS are experienced when not rendering, which takes most of my time: creating, playing around with files, previewing (QuickLook), searching and finding (Spotlight), switching apps, fontmanagement, collecting footage, pdf, mail, ProRes, Logic Pro X, Smart Folders, Unix, …)
    So in the end, I’m not sure which system is more productive for me. So for now I think I’ll stick with Nick and give Apple another try.

  • Russell Colombo March 6, 2018 at 1:02 am

    Best conversation on this topic ever, great guys. No Nick, you’re not being an old man. I have all the same concerns. If I wouldn’t get banned I would say what I really thought about Apple and it’s “CEO”

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